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Post by allennnd on Apr 7, 2006 13:21:26 GMT -5
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Post by rafael83 on Apr 7, 2006 15:15:13 GMT -5
Oh my god! I can't wait to the DVD to be sold in France to see that! Because I can't hear in the version I downloaded...
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Post by Kelley on Apr 7, 2006 15:42:15 GMT -5
 You are right Allennnd! After you posted this I had to go to that scene to see for myself!! It is true! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by allennnd on Apr 7, 2006 16:10:26 GMT -5
You are right Allennnd! After you posted this I had to go to that scene to see for myself!! It is true! ;D ;D ;D Yes, it's true and some people think we're making things up and don't believe it... but, what a surprise to hear Ennis saying 'I love you' (I'm going to faint right now!)   |
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Post by Kelley on Apr 7, 2006 16:34:03 GMT -5
Do not faint! I have already done that once today and it was not on good terms! But if you feel you are going to... fall onto something soft, see I did not have this planned out when it happened! But I loved to hear it too ;D |
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Post by xzcarlyzx on Apr 7, 2006 16:46:55 GMT -5
Aww! Kelley are you okay?
I will have to see that.
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Post by Gareth of Marice on Apr 9, 2006 13:47:44 GMT -5
Kelley, I hope you're okay.
About the scene, I so totally have to hear that. I mean, those words aren't really spoken between Jack and Ennis. Sure, you can feel it's there, but something inside them would not let them say that to each other.
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Post by Kelley on Apr 9, 2006 13:49:36 GMT -5
Yes and that is in a way a shame, but in a way makes it all the more powerful, if that is understandable  Yes, yes, I am okay. No need to worry |
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Post by xzcarlyzx on Apr 10, 2006 16:20:08 GMT -5
Okay, the only person I have seen faint was this girl I hate because she can't handle light.
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Post by spongemonkey on Apr 11, 2006 20:22:10 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this, being as I'm a screenwriter, own the entire screenplay as well as the short story and have been not only enjoying, but studying this film for both its worth as a work of art and a fantastic story (and structurally a fantastic film) ... for a long time.
Though the "I love you" that he mumbles into the shirt is a pivotal event for Ennis's character in the film, it's just a premonition to the real power that comes later, when his daughter, Alma JR. visits him in his trailer and announces that she is going to be married. If you break the film down into a series of acts (and screenplays DO have acts, Acts I, II, and III, but they aren't numbered at all in the actual screenplay, you can just find them via the information and the action inside the story) .. you'll notice exactly what's going on.
The real climax, or I think the beginning of the end of the movie actually comes structurally when the character makes the biggest change in their lives.
And while some might think it's the moment Ennis visits Jack Twist's family, I would argue that it's not. You see, we'd love to think that the moment everything changes for Ennis is the moment he finds out that his lover is dead and gone.. it's true! But he doesn't actively change until that pivotal moment .. the final scene with his daughter which.. at first viewing, may have seemed rather boring.
Until you look at the genuine importance of it.
Think about it. Throughout the entire film, Ennis del Mar has put everyone and everything before the power of love. Jack Twist always comes second to something, no matter how profoundly Ennis would like to let it be first. Ennis is afraid, angry, confused and a plethora of other emotions.. all of which keep him from expressing his true feelings.. and furthermore, keep him from putting love first. He never does. Alma comes first... the kids come first... the job comes first.
Then.. wherever there's time to spare, there's always Jack.
But in the end, when Ennis makes the most profound change, a lesson he finally learned (as most people do.. hence the saying "you never know what you've got until you lose it") in the aftermath of Jack's death.... he puts love first.
In this case, he puts the love of his daughter over his job. For once, he doesn't make an excuse to hide from feeling. "Well you know what? I reckon they can get themselves another cowboy. My little girl's gettin' married."
After this conversation, he turns to that closet and he opens the door to put Alma Jr's sweater inside... and after hanging it, he looks to the inside door whereupon there hangs his shirt and Jack's shirt, intertwined like the lovers they were, with that picture of Brokeback mountain hovering just above and to the side. He straightens it... and says, "Jack I swear..."
... I swear to never make that mistake again.
He finally puts love first.
Such a profound ending.
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Post by jakesdream on Apr 11, 2006 23:07:46 GMT -5
Wow sponge so very deep I would agree, of course I am not a writter so I would never have been able to put it as beautiful as you I just think that the most powerful words (even above I love you) were "Jack I swear"....... that to me was the "I love you" I longed so desperately to hear him say to Jack. I would love to think that if the move had gone on that they would show Ennis in another relationship with a man and have flash back to him and Jack and that he would finally be comfortable with who he was? (Sorry I'm a sucker for happy endings ) |
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Post by allennnd on Apr 12, 2006 12:03:39 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this, being as I'm a screenwriter, own the entire screenplay as well as the short story and have been not only enjoying, but studying this film for both its worth as a work of art and a fantastic story (and structurally a fantastic film) ... for a long time. Though the "I love you" that he mumbles into the shirt is a pivotal event for Ennis's character in the film, it's just a premonition to the real power that comes later, when his daughter, Alma JR. visits him in his trailer and announces that she is going to be married. If you break the film down into a series of acts (and screenplays DO have acts, Acts I, II, and III, but they aren't numbered at all in the actual screenplay, you can just find them via the information and the action inside the story) .. you'll notice exactly what's going on. The real climax, or I think the beginning of the end of the movie actually comes structurally when the character makes the biggest change in their lives. And while some might think it's the moment Ennis visits Jack Twist's family, I would argue that it's not. You see, we'd love to think that the moment everything changes for Ennis is the moment he finds out that his lover is dead and gone.. it's true! But he doesn't actively change until that pivotal moment .. the final scene with his daughter which.. at first viewing, may have seemed rather boring. Until you look at the genuine importance of it. Think about it. Throughout the entire film, Ennis del Mar has put everyone and everything before the power of love. Jack Twist always comes second to something, no matter how profoundly Ennis would like to let it be first. Ennis is afraid, angry, confused and a plethora of other emotions.. all of which keep him from expressing his true feelings.. and furthermore, keep him from putting love first. He never does. Alma comes first... the kids come first... the job comes first. Then.. wherever there's time to spare, there's always Jack. But in the end, when Ennis makes the most profound change, a lesson he finally learned (as most people do.. hence the saying "you never know what you've got until you lose it") in the aftermath of Jack's death.... he puts love first. In this case, he puts the love of his daughter over his job. For once, he doesn't make an excuse to hide from feeling. "Well you know what? I reckon they can get themselves another cowboy. My little girl's gettin' married." After this conversation, he turns to that closet and he opens the door to put Alma Jr's sweater inside... and after hanging it, he looks to the inside door whereupon there hangs his shirt and Jack's shirt, intertwined like the lovers they were, with that picture of Brokeback mountain hovering just above and to the side. He straightens it... and says, "Jack I swear..." ... I swear to never make that mistake again. He finally puts love first. Such a profound ending. Yes, In deed he learned his lesson but a what price?! Jack was no longer there too witness that change and It's really devastating to finally realized that you were wrong until you're love is gone! |
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Post by Ryder on Apr 12, 2006 17:59:16 GMT -5
Oh wow, that was written so beautifully, sponge I had not thought of it like that but now it seems so clear. Thank you so much for that. Most lessons worth learning do seem to cost almost too much of your heart. |
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Post by Kelley on Apr 12, 2006 21:58:53 GMT -5
Sponge, that was sensational to read. Thank you so very much for sharing your expertise with us. I had been (warped by English classes) making a (shoot now the word escapes me... this is happening too much trying to speak English lately  ) well.. plot summary I guess you could call it. With the inciting incident, rising action, the climax/turning point, and falling action, to the closure So while watching the film my mind was going through this, picking out these pieces and watching as the characters grew and changed before your eyes, making decisions that changed the course of their lives. But thank you again for your very very insightful post!!! |
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Post by xzcarlyzx on Apr 14, 2006 21:38:22 GMT -5
That was great sponge! You said everything the movie was about. Nobody could have put it better.
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) well.. plot summary I guess you could call it. With the inciting incident, rising action, the climax/turning point, and falling action, to the closure